Become a Clutch Fitness member, Register today!
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read

Navigation »Clutch Fitness > Supplementation > Supplement Discussions » What Is The Best Anti-Estrogen?

Notices

Supplement Discussions General discussions on anything related to supplementing your diet

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-06-2008, 04:12 PM   #1
Watcher
Heavyweight
 
Watcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Age: 34
Posts: 4,622
Friends: (30)
Referrals: 3
Question What Is The Best Anti-Estrogen?

Besides Nolvadex, Clomid, HGC, and arimidex, what is the best OTC anti-estrogen you can by on the market now? I've been away from the game for a while and would like everybody's opinion on what works the best for PCT from a prohormone cycle, not a dip into the darkside.

Thanks for all the input everybody and I look forward to seeing what comes up on this list. Much appreciated in advance.
__________________

Loveland, Colorado, USA
"From Cradle To Coffin Shall My Wickedness Be Your Passion." ~ Nightwish
"One Way Ticket On Your Last Chance Ride, A One Way Ticket To Your Suicide" ~ Guns & Roses
LegendaryWatcher@aol.com
http://www.myspace.com/legendarywatcher
Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 12:32 PM   #2
stri8ted
Planetary Nutrition Rep
Supplement Guru
 
stri8ted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 255
Age: 39
Posts: 441
Friends: (0)
Referrals: 0
Default

Myogenix Hardcore Test

Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support

6-OXO Extreme is another option for a good choice.
__________________
www.planetarynutrition.com

Clutch Members use discount code "clutch"
for 10% off your order.
stri8ted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 01:10 PM   #3
Ironteenrich
Middleweight
 
Ironteenrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Age: 26
Posts: 1,375
Friends: (2)
Referrals: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher View Post
Besides Nolvadex, Clomid, HGC, and arimidex, what is the best OTC anti-estrogen you can by on the market now? I've been away from the game for a while and would like everybody's opinion on what works the best for PCT from a prohormone cycle, not a dip into the darkside.

Thanks for all the input everybody and I look forward to seeing what comes up on this list. Much appreciated in advance.
6-oxo, gaspari has a nolva-xt product or something like that.

For how much you would spend for an otc PCT you would be better just buying nolva for how dirt cheap you can find it and be alot safer. you'll be looking to spend more then your PH cycle on a good OTC pct (depending on what PH you run, i know people who ran havoc, then otc pct and spend an arm on and leg for everything they bought for pct when they coulda gotten nolva for a quarter of the price)
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
People do not lack strength; they lack will. - Victor Hugo

you have to fail at something quite a few times before you can start to succeed- Adam Hughes
Ironteenrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 01:22 PM   #4
Fireproof
The Chief
 
Fireproof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Age: 45
Posts: 13,709
Friends: (64)
Referrals: 36
Default

Also...just to be clear...

You typically use a SERM post-cycle. The big three are clomid, nolvadex, or torem (the new kid on the block that many folks are using).

Arimidex is an aromatase-inhibitor (AI) and is typically used on-cycle. (Not typically used with PHs though). And HCG is a peptide hormone that stimulates natural test production to counter shutdown while on or after.
__________________
In Africa, every morning a gazelle awakens knowing that it must outrun the fast lion if it wants to stay alive.
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing that it must run faster than the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death.
It makes no difference whether you are a lion or a gazelle - when the sun comes up, you better be running!


Current Phase: De-fatting
Training and Diet Secrets!
Fireproof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:02 PM   #5
Ironteenrich
Middleweight
 
Ironteenrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Age: 26
Posts: 1,375
Friends: (2)
Referrals: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireproof View Post
Also...just to be clear...

You typically use a SERM post-cycle. The big three are clomid, nolvadex, or torem (the new kid on the block that many folks are using).

Arimidex is an aromatase-inhibitor (AI) and is typically used on-cycle. (Not typically used with PHs though). And HCG is a peptide hormone that stimulates natural test production to counter shutdown while on or after.
Alot of people have been trying to use OTC for PCT instead of SERM's lately... even though nolva is a quarter of what you would be paying and 10x more effective.

Pick up a rat at petco and save moneyyyy
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
People do not lack strength; they lack will. - Victor Hugo

you have to fail at something quite a few times before you can start to succeed- Adam Hughes
Ironteenrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:05 PM   #6
Fireproof
The Chief
 
Fireproof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Age: 45
Posts: 13,709
Friends: (64)
Referrals: 36
Default

Agreed. I think in many cases newbies just don't know where to acquire SERMs for at-home research projects.
__________________
In Africa, every morning a gazelle awakens knowing that it must outrun the fast lion if it wants to stay alive.
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing that it must run faster than the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death.
It makes no difference whether you are a lion or a gazelle - when the sun comes up, you better be running!


Current Phase: De-fatting
Training and Diet Secrets!
Fireproof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:43 PM   #7
Little Big Guy
Lightweight
 
Little Big Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UTAH
Age: 30
Posts: 620
Friends: (14)
Referrals: 1
Default

I dont think a SERM or AI would be nescesary pct for any of the current legal PH's. I havent heard of any casses of estrogen aromitization occurring with them (I havent looked either though). But I have seen evidence that natural test production is shut down during use, so maybe HCG would be the prefferable route.
__________________
"Let those who don't understand me fear me, let thoes who understand me fear themselves" - Thorin
Little Big Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 04:13 PM   #8
Ironteenrich
Middleweight
 
Ironteenrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Age: 26
Posts: 1,375
Friends: (2)
Referrals: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Big Guy View Post
I dont think a SERM or AI would be nescesary pct for any of the current legal PH's. I havent heard of any casses of estrogen aromitization occurring with them (I havent looked either though). But I have seen evidence that natural test production is shut down during use, so maybe HCG would be the prefferable route.
I disagree with this on many levels. HCG isn't even used by many steriod users till several cycle's in. Also, alot of PH's and designer steriods cause shut down, most should at the very least use an AI PCT, and alot of them should be using serm's also. or just serm

For the price you can get rat serm which would last 2-3 Pct I think it's better safe, then sorry.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
People do not lack strength; they lack will. - Victor Hugo

you have to fail at something quite a few times before you can start to succeed- Adam Hughes
Ironteenrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 05:47 PM   #9
Little Big Guy
Lightweight
 
Little Big Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UTAH
Age: 30
Posts: 620
Friends: (14)
Referrals: 1
Default

Not sure what you dissagree with man. Without evidence that the drugs in question even aromatize what is the point of an inhibiter? even if they do some estro is benificial as long as its not to much. Havent heard of anybody geting gyno from Havoc.Lol. I think my post was missinterpreted. I am A big fan of SERMS and AI's and they are good to keep on hand incase they are needed but people tend to use them when they dont need too. I was not saying that HCG was the way to go but offering it as an idea.
__________________
"Let those who don't understand me fear me, let thoes who understand me fear themselves" - Thorin
Little Big Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 01:52 PM   #10
psychojr
Lightweight
 
psychojr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 156
Friends: (8)
Referrals: 2
Default

For one, I take HCG and unless you dose properly you estrogen levels can go up. I take it under an MD's supervision (because my T levels were on the low end of normal). Fortunately after several months my T levels went up to the high end of normal (and lots of great associated benefits!), but my estrogen started climbing. My doc put me on Arimidex and decreased the HCG dosage. Things are getting back to where they are supposed to be. I wouldn't know any of this except I get a blood test every month to evaluate. I don't know how any of this would be possible unless you were being evaluated by a doctor. How do people just guess? You are making dang big assumptions if you cycle on your own and then do PST. Hormones are going to be flying all over the place.
psychojr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 02:14 PM   #11
Fireproof
The Chief
 
Fireproof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Age: 45
Posts: 13,709
Friends: (64)
Referrals: 36
Default

Out of curiosity - what dosage does your doc have you on for HCG for your therapy? And when he added arimidex to the mix, what dosage of that?
__________________
In Africa, every morning a gazelle awakens knowing that it must outrun the fast lion if it wants to stay alive.
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing that it must run faster than the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death.
It makes no difference whether you are a lion or a gazelle - when the sun comes up, you better be running!


Current Phase: De-fatting
Training and Diet Secrets!
Fireproof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 02:14 PM   #12
big
He really is!
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 602
Friends: (10)
Referrals: 0
Default the gaspari product

novedex xt is what the man was refering to.
ive got the bottle in my hand to make sure i spelled it right
__________________
no one
big is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 03:06 PM   #13
psychojr
Lightweight
 
psychojr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 156
Friends: (8)
Referrals: 2
Default

I was taking .25cc of HCG 3x a week, so a bottle was good for 20 doses. Now I'm taking .20cc. The Arimidex tablets are 1mg and I do 2x week. Fortunately my insurance paid for the Arimidex, but not the HCG. HCG cost me about $75 for a bottle. The HCG is not supposed to aromatize to estrogen under normal dosages, but you have to play around with it to get it right. Hopefully after I get it stabilized I can quit the Arimidex.
psychojr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 03:42 PM   #14
Little Big Guy
Lightweight
 
Little Big Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UTAH
Age: 30
Posts: 620
Friends: (14)
Referrals: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychojr View Post
For one, I take HCG and unless you dose properly you estrogen levels can go up. I take it under an MD's supervision (because my T levels were on the low end of normal). Fortunately after several months my T levels went up to the high end of normal (and lots of great associated benefits!), but my estrogen started climbing. My doc put me on Arimidex and decreased the HCG dosage. Things are getting back to where they are supposed to be. I wouldn't know any of this except I get a blood test every month to evaluate. I don't know how any of this would be possible unless you were being evaluated by a doctor. How do people just guess? You are making dang big assumptions if you cycle on your own and then do PST. Hormones are going to be flying all over the place.
So, youre "Doctor" (I'm asuming an Endocrinologist) put you on HCG for low natural test production and added A-dex when estro levels got to high. After re-reading the thread I think thats exactly what I recomended.You bring up a good point about not guessing, I just assumed that hormone levels were going to be monitered during expirimentation.glad youre here!
__________________
"Let those who don't understand me fear me, let thoes who understand me fear themselves" - Thorin
Little Big Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2008, 04:04 PM   #15
Fireproof
The Chief
 
Fireproof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Frisco, TX
Age: 45
Posts: 13,709
Friends: (64)
Referrals: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychojr View Post
I was taking .25cc of HCG 3x a week, so a bottle was good for 20 doses. Now I'm taking .20cc. The Arimidex tablets are 1mg and I do 2x week. Fortunately my insurance paid for the Arimidex, but not the HCG. HCG cost me about $75 for a bottle. The HCG is not supposed to aromatize to estrogen under normal dosages, but you have to play around with it to get it right. Hopefully after I get it stabilized I can quit the Arimidex.
Sorry for the questions - but would you mind looking at the concentration of your HCG? I can't tell how many IU that is - .25cc (which is .25ml) can be anything - depending on the concentration (IU/ml).

I'm just curious. On most long AAS cycles where one is completely shut down, it's typical to take 250IU of HCG 2-3 times weekly to keep natural test production up. So I'm curious how your dose compares to that.

Likewise, on most long AAS cycles where aromatization can occur (or elevated estrogen levels) folks typically take .25mg-1mg ED or EOD of arimidex. Which is a very wide range. So again, I was curious as to what you were suggested to take. I always like to see what folks are recommended under the supervision of a doctor.
__________________
In Africa, every morning a gazelle awakens knowing that it must outrun the fast lion if it wants to stay alive.
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing that it must run faster than the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death.
It makes no difference whether you are a lion or a gazelle - when the sun comes up, you better be running!


Current Phase: De-fatting
Training and Diet Secrets!
Fireproof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 11:11 AM   #16
Darkhorse
Distance Trainer
 
Darkhorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: CA
Age: 35
Posts: 5,202
Friends: (48)
Referrals: 17
Default

I think legal PH's they sell now are a lot harder on your system than anything IMO. Everything's methylated nowadays. Ouch!

But with today's political climate, it's probably wise to stay as far away from all that jazz as possible. I mean, if they're already going after regulating harmless supplements, I can only imagine..
__________________
LUCHARILLA.COM



For all training inquiries PM me.
Darkhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 11:17 AM   #17
psychojr
Lightweight
 
psychojr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 156
Friends: (8)
Referrals: 2
Default

There ar 10,000IU in a bottle so 250 IU would be the same.
psychojr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2008, 04:49 AM   #18
Watcher
Heavyweight
 
Watcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Age: 34
Posts: 4,622
Friends: (30)
Referrals: 3
Default

Thanks for all the awesome replies!
__________________

Loveland, Colorado, USA
"From Cradle To Coffin Shall My Wickedness Be Your Passion." ~ Nightwish
"One Way Ticket On Your Last Chance Ride, A One Way Ticket To Your Suicide" ~ Guns & Roses
LegendaryWatcher@aol.com
http://www.myspace.com/legendarywatcher
Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Estrogen - too much is bad / moderation is priceless Fireproof Anabolics and Prohormones 8 02-20-2008 03:06 PM
The Anti-Gym floods Miscellaneous Musings 21 01-08-2008 08:07 AM
Higher estrogen levels linked to stroke MikeM Female Fitness 0 02-20-2006 12:24 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin | Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Content published on Clutch Fitness requires permission for reprint.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26