[Formula8]

Has anyone completely stopped using protein powders? Whether you dropped the powders with no other changes to your diet, or replaced them with more whole foods, what differences did you notice?

Personally, I've used them for a long time and can't say I've seen any tangible benefit. However, I keep using them just to make sure I'm getting in some extra protein. Protein prices are on the rise and my favorite brand just jumped from $38 to $44/5lbs. This is starting to get pricey for me and I have to draw the line somewhere. I haven't exactly been laying down slabs of muscle, so what's the point in spending the extra coin.

I know someone is inevitably going to respond saying to, "try it and see". I intend on doing just that, but wanted to hear some feedback for the sake of discussion.

[Kryptic]

I dropped it about a month or two ago mainly due to price and wanting to force myself to get more whole foods.

There are times where I miss the convenience of being able to make a shake and have thought about buying some for just the random occasion, but otherwise I've been surviving without.

[Darkhorse]

I don't notice anything different per say. Sorta like taking a multi in that it sounds better to say you eat meats vs whey, but at the end of the day convenience and cost means the most to me. If I'm gaining lbm, I'll no doubt drink a shake with a few of my meals vs paying out of pocket for more ounces of meat. Fat loss, I prefer lean meats mainly due to satiety which leads to higher dietary compliance.

At the end of the day, eating a well balanced VARIED diet, END OF DAY totals matter most. I don't think it matters a whole lot what percentage of protein comes from whole foods vs shakes ime. I know it's popular to say eat nothing but whole food meals, but I've never noticed any extra health benefits in doing so...

Skip at IM recently ran an experiment having his guys use nothing but shakes, similar to a velocity diet, and they all did extremely well lol..

[Ozz]

Man, I couldn't imagine doing so. And Kryptic must buy expensive protein powder or raise his own cattle because I go through protein powder what I felt was quickly at 5lbs. per month which costs me $30-40. If I replaced all of my powder intake with meats I'd spend twice that at least. Even a $1 can of solid white tuna per day is $30/mo. and that's just one meal's worth.

[Formula8]

There is no doubt that if you consider cost/gram of protein, powder can't be beat. I also wasn't coming at this from the angle of whole foods > powder for health or street cred reasons.

My thinking, and reason for posting this was as follows. I have been using protein powder for a long time, during which I have tried numerous diet and workout plans. Size wise, I can't say that one approach worked better than any other. I can easily gain weight, it just never happens to be muscle. If this is the case and I'm not getting bigger, why bother wasting more money on protein powder?

Yes I would like to gain some mass and protein powder MAY help with that, but at this point in my life I'm content with getting as strong as I can in this weight class and putting more focus on conditioning and getting leaner. Just thinking out loud here.

I guess this leads to another question. With the goals I stated above, does it really matter if I adhere to the whole 1.5-2g/lb protein guideline?

[Kryptic]

Originally Posted by Ozz

Man, I couldn't imagine doing so. And Kryptic must buy expensive protein powder or raise his own cattle because I go through protein powder what I felt was quickly at 5lbs. per month which costs me $30-40. If I replaced all of my powder intake with meats I'd spend twice that at least. Even a $1 can of solid white tuna per day is $30/mo. and that's just one meal's worth.

I was buying a 10lb bag of Scivation which was running I think around 60ish per month. I was up to usually about 2 shakes per day so it was easy for me to burn through a bag in just over a month.

It looks like Dymatize is right around $43 for a 5lb tub...

[Darkhorse]

I personally think the majority of trainees would fair very well at lower Than 2x bw protein requirements as its more of an overall kcal total vs one macro over another. I think after DC, with whom I've trained under for a year, everyone assumes ADEQUATE protein has to be upwards of 2 grams per pound which is way too much IMO. Research "refractory" by Layne Norton and you'll see a guy who works in this field talking at length about it. In short, ime, if you have high caloric needs, choosing protein out of the macros to hit most of that requirement would be much more beneficial than cho or fats.

Layne is the one guy I'd listen to because researching aminos is his job.. And has the bb resume to back it up.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by Kryptic

I was buying a 10lb bag of Scivation which was running I think around 60ish per month. I was up to usually about 2 shakes per day so it was easy for me to burn through a bag in just over a month.

It looks like Dymatize is right around $43 for a 5lb tub...

Odd - are you using lots of scoops? I have 2 scoops each morning, 2 PWO on workout days, and often another 1 or 2 scoops during the day if I can't sit and eat and still average about 5lbs. per month. DPS and some other places have Dymatize for about $35/5lbs. That alone is $14 off the top for 10lbs.

edit:

Originally Posted by Formula8

There is no doubt that if you consider cost/gram of protein, powder can't be beat. I also wasn't coming at this from the angle of whole foods > powder for health or street cred reasons

I wasn't trying to sway you, just replying to Kryptic's statement about some unrelated. Unintended thread hijacking, if you will

[AK37]

I love my Team Skip protein powder blend from TN :-)
I don't leave home w/out it... tastes great, mixes great and is super convenient for my needs & requirements.

[Formula8]

Originally Posted by Darkhorse

I personally think the majority of trainees would fair very well at lower Than 2x bw protein requirements as its more of an overall kcal total vs one macro over another. I think after DC, with whom I've trained under for a year, everyone assumes ADEQUATE protein has to be upwards of 2 grams per pound which is way too much IMO. Research "refractory" by Layne Norton and you'll see a guy who works in this field talking at length about it. In short, ime, if you have high caloric needs, choosing protein out of the macros to hit most of that requirement would be much more beneficial than cho or fats.

Layne is the one guy I'd listen to because researching aminos is his job.. And has the bb resume to back it up.

Thanks, I will take a look at that work by Layne.

My issue is more along the lines of having lower caloric needs. I will maintain my weight on about 2K calories. Unless I arrange my macros to require more than 40% from protein, I'm only looking at just over 1g/lb of protein. For me, this has not lead to robust gains in size. Bottom line is that chasing protein requirements has only lead me to frustration, thus my original question about saving money and dropping protein powder.

[Kryptic]

Originally Posted by Ozz

Odd - are you using lots of scoops? I have 2 scoops each morning, 2 PWO on workout days, and often another 1 or 2 scoops during the day if I can't sit and eat and still average about 5lbs. per month. DPS and some other places have Dymatize for about $35/5lbs. That alone is $14 off the top for 10lbs.

Hm, maybe I'll buy a 5lb and see where I'm at. I see Amazon has Dymatize for $41 w/ free shipping if you use the "Subscribe and Save" which is about equal if you factor in the $5 shipping you get hit with from DPS.

[Nic]

Speaking of Layne I have heard there is a pretty good interview with him on the BodyRX podcast. You can download the podcast on Itunes. I have got it downloading now. The show number is 15. I just typed in Layne Norton in Itunes in the podcasts. Listening now.........

Originally Posted by Darkhorse

I personally think the majority of trainees would fair very well at lower Than 2x bw protein requirements as its more of an overall kcal total vs one macro over another. I think after DC, with whom I've trained under for a year, everyone assumes ADEQUATE protein has to be upwards of 2 grams per pound which is way too much IMO. Research "refractory" by Layne Norton and you'll see a guy who works in this field talking at length about it. In short, ime, if you have high caloric needs, choosing protein out of the macros to hit most of that requirement would be much more beneficial than cho or fats.

Layne is the one guy I'd listen to because researching aminos is his job.. And has the bb resume to back it up.

[JoeD]

I personally have found better results with real food as oppossed to whey/shakes, especially if you are talking about a satiety effect also. Meaning, if I have 50 grams of whey I will be starving in 2 hours where as a good piece of meat will keep me full for maybe 4. So, I don't end up over eating but I still use EAAs/BCAAs for when I need a quick fix seeing as i dont have time to just cook meat all day

[JoeD]

BTW a quality whey has a lot of health benefits , and not just muscle building benefits. But beware of cheap whey where you may be getting screwed on label claims, overly processed whey and at worse some really bad gas/bloating/digestion from it which is not condusive for optimal gains in anything. I have had my fair share of those for sure

[Nic]

Originally Posted by JoeD

BTW a quality whey has a lot of health benefits , and not just muscle building benefits. But beware of cheap whey where you may be getting screwed on label claims, overly processed whey and at worse some really bad gas/bloating/digestion from it which is not condusive for optimal gains in anything. I have had my fair share of those for sure

I cannot remember the one I bought at Sam's Club back in college thinking I was going to save some money but it was pretty bad. The majority of it was whey concentrate and seemed to be of pretty low quality. Although I must say it was by far one of the most flavorful but my guess is they were trying to mask their product. The issue with just about every supplement out there is you really have no idea what is in the product. Sure they list whey concentrate/isolate blend but what is the ratio. Where was the product manufactured etc. I do like the products from True Nutrition(Protein) but I have found their flavor systems really hit or miss. I usually just order it plain and drink it. Saves me a couple of bucks on flavoring.

[Formula8]

I decided to just bite the bullet and order up some more protein. I'm going to try to have the best of both worlds and primarily use the protein on workout days so it lasts longer, and then make an efffort to eat more meat on off days.

Dan- I did read Layne's article on refractory. Seems to go along with how I like eating, big meals more spaced out. Good info.

[JoeD]

Originally Posted by Nic

I cannot remember the one I bought at Sam's Club back in college thinking I was going to save some money but it was pretty bad. The majority of it was whey concentrate and seemed to be of pretty low quality. Although I must say it was by far one of the most flavorful but my guess is they were trying to mask their product. The issue with just about every supplement out there is you really have no idea what is in the product. Sure they list whey concentrate/isolate blend but what is the ratio. Where was the product manufactured etc. I do like the products from True Nutrition(Protein) but I have found their flavor systems really hit or miss. I usually just order it plain and drink it. Saves me a couple of bucks on flavoring.

It really makes picking and choosing supps pretty difficult...Agreed on TN's flavoring - it's either really good or something to be desired...